Long, drawn-out combat?

[Reinjin]

Hi everyone. I really like the server and how it's striving to include all DAoC content, not just the classic stuff.

However, my first impression of combat on the server is that it's quite a bit slower than the live version.

I can start a new Armsman on the live servers, go up to a yellow con mob, and be done fighting it in ten to fifteen seconds. With the basic Ruby Slash skill, I can hit for 10 or 12 damage, right at level 1. No armor, just a starter sword.

On Storm, most of my hits land for 3 or 4 damage. Even after gaining two or three levels, damage is very low. I can engage a yellow con mob, go to the kitchen, pour myself a glass of water, come back, reply to two or three IMs, and alt+tab back into the game to find my character just about to defeat the mob.

Of course I'm going to keep at it. Maybe damage catches up in a few levels, or maybe it doesn't until 50. I just thought I'd ask if this is intended and if so, why.

Thanks!

[Tolakram]

Thanks for the feedback. I have a live account open so I'll test it out and see if we have something out of whack.

[Sand]

What is speed and dps of that weapon?

Edit: Answer to the above is 1.2 and 2.5 , 90 % quality thus effective dps of only about 1 thus your damage so max damage one can do with that weapon would be 7.5 (unstyled, but styles at that level have crappy gr thus only offer 1 extra damage at this level), so your doing well to hit for 4.

Maybe you hit for 10+ on live because you got a slower weapon and/or higher dps (though later I doubt).

IIRC (though it has been a while since I did much hitting mobs before 20), the damage for most starting characters were only about 5 damage. Styles typically added 1 point of damage.

I think my casters might of saw two digit damage when they started because they were the few classes that started out with 2handed weapons thus with slower speeds.

Storm damage is not quite right in several aspects but the difference later on is definitely not as bad as the situation your suggesting.

[Reinjin]

I don't have a complex understanding of the game - I've only been playing for a week or so.

I'm just seeing a decent-sized difference.

I just created new fresh level 1 Armsman on both live and Storm.

On Live, I have a "Practice Sword" that does 1.2 Effective DPS. I have no armor to wear. The sword is the only item on me.

I engage a Hibernian Invader.

You perform your Ruby Slash perfectly. (+2)
You attack the Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 8(+2)damage.

You attack the Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 5(+1) damage.

The Hibernian Invader hits your head for 4 damage!

You attack the Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 4(+1) damage.

You prepare to perform a Ruby Slash!

You perform your Ruby Slash perfectly. (+2)
You attack the Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 8 (+2) damage!

And that's the end of our Hibernian Invader.

On Storm server, the practice sword does 1.1 effective damage. Just 0.1 less. I'm not sure if it's because of the discrepancy that less damage is done on Storm, but it definitely takes longer to kill as a newbie on Storm.

Let's kill a Hibernian Invader on Storm.

You prepare to perform a Ruby Slash!

You perform your Ruby Slash perfectly! (+1)
You attack Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 4 damage.

Hibernian Invader hits your torso for 3 damage!

You attack Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 2 damage!

Hibernian Invader attacks you and misses!

You attack Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 3 damage!

You prepare to perform a Ruby Slash!

You perform your Ruby Slash perfectly! (+1)
You attack Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 3 damage!

Hibernian Invader hits your torso for 1 damage!

You attack Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 2 damage!

You prepare to perform a Ruby Slash!

Hibernian Invader attacks you and misses!

You perform your Ruby Slash perfectly! (+1)
You attack Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 4 damage!

Hibernian Invader attacks you and you block the blow!

You pick up 1 copper pieces.
You attack Hibernian Invader with your sword and hit for 3 damage!

In Live, I'm hitting for about 8 damage with a Ruby Slash. On Storm, sometimes a Ruby Slash will hit for 3. Sometimes for 4.

On Live, the enemy got a single attack in. On Storm, the invader got 5 attacks on me. Plus combat took quite a bit longer.

This problem is exacerbated on yellow even-level mobs, which take a bit longer than a blue mob to kill on Live and much, much longer on Storm.

Sand, you mentioned Quality - I'm thinking that the 90% quality on the Storm version of the Practice Sword is what lowers its DPS 0.1 point to 1.1. But to a newbie like me, a 0.1 point drop doesn't seem to mean I should be doing 3-damage Ruby Strikes.

Anyway, I'm very new to DaOC in general, but I thought it'd be safe to make this very small observation.

I know that in the long run this is probably of little importance, what with all the abilities to get working and other bugs to fix, but it's really quite noticeable early on.

[Dunnerholl]

did u use same race with exact same starting stats?

cause if u make one with 10 str more then u have already a big problem

[Reinjin]

Both Britons, same starting weapons.

[Phen]

What about possiblity of melee damage bonus from relics? the mobs you encounter may also be a level or two more in comparison to each other, varied stats/resists may apply as well. One thing i did notice though , the Armsman version of rubyslash has a .04 gr(instead of .05) in my style db(default), not sure if it has correct value on storms version though. So from what you described , a difference in weapon speed of .1, a growthrate difference of another .01, possible different scale of target level,stats,resists can add to this variance of dmg.

[Roozzz]

Just checked, on Storm it is 0.05.

[Sand]

Okay so damage is closer than you indicated.

Thanks for report, it's just for us to ascertain reasons for it we need a lot more than the you do this much damage per swing, as there is a lot of variables that come into play.

8 veruss 10/12 that you said.

Now that sounds more reasonable and you still have not given speed (dps is damage per second so you need to multiple the speed on weapon which is actually the delay in seconds).

Your actually getting 2 points of style damage there as well so effects of rounding maybe a bigger effect than would be obvious at later levels. The actual style damage on Storm is possibly 1.8 and live 2.1. Ours isn't quite high enough to go to 2 because numbers are truncated rather than rounded, it is only 1 point of difference but 1 point is a lot when you do less than 10 damage.

Oh another factor in your shots is that your seeing +2 after the damage which means the mobs you are fighting are weak to the damage type your doing (slash) allowing you to do extra damage. Our mobs do not have that currently, but you might see - after numbers on live too if you were to go fight a beetle for example with a thrust weapon instead because they are resistent to it. (I can't think of a low level mob that is resistent to slash atm but you try another target on live you will get different numbers).

Our damage is a little low particularly for classes like armsman who have better natural mele ability based on class that is not seen in stats and that is coming in to play here but again no the only factor.

The difference is not as stark at other points or other classes than it is for Arms.

[Sand]

Oh one more thing on damage taken.

Live appears to have slower attacking mobs and do hit harder than ours.

Even if you take speed into account, your probably getting hit with more damage per second on Storm which is the opposite of what we people saying later on.

[Reinjin]

I'm definitely not as knowledgeable about the inner workings of Storm as you all are. I trust your judgment.

All I know is that things take longer on Storm as a Briton Armsman. I can't speak for any other races and classes.

I'm a huge fan of the server for sure. Just making a newbie observation. :]

[Tolakram]

I think it comes down to resist bonuses.

If you get +1 or +2 bonus to damage resists on each hit that's going to add up pretty quickly. So on live if you find a mob resistant to your attack type, 8(-1) for example, these will actually go down faster on Storm because of the lack of resists.

[Sand]

It is all good to have all the information we can so don't take my responses as discouragement, just trying to give reasons why.

There are some valid reasons for the differences, while others due point to coding issues.

The mob vunerablities/weaknesses will cancel each other out so not a big concern since you can't always find mobs weak to your damage but we do want to add that variety to our mobs as well eventually.

The other factor of general low mele damage for arms is probably the biggest concern here but unfortunately is not easy to fix because so many varibles factor in to nail down right equations for damage calcs. It is something we do very much want to address though.

[Tolakram]

I believe I've found an issue that is given low level mobs too many hitpoints. The result being that it takes longer to kill.

I'll be looking into this as quickly as possible.

Thanks again for the information.

[Dunnerholl]

just as sidenote to get hell a lot of low lvl test data : remember the /xpoff command