Abhorrent Heals for Healers/Druids/Clerics

[Lurikhaun]

Suggestion: I hate to beat a dead horse here - I know I've mentioned this many times, but I still think that heals from primary healers need to be fixed - and I think I've come up with a simple solution: Turn the Instant Group Heal in the Mending/Regrowth/Rejuvenation Lines into the Abhorrent Heal (that actually heals the group)...

Reasoning: There is absolutely no reason that an ability identical to what everyone has access to could be considered overpowered. But the self-healing is taxing, and inhibits the ability to do other things in combat: outsourcing this to a healer not only promotes grouping, but enables more entertaining/strategic combat. Not to mention, this promotes grouping with other lower level healers (before people have access too Abhorrent gear)

Abhorrent healing stats: 750 Delve, Instant Cast, No Recast Timer, Target: Self

Changes to each class: (Each spell should have the following changes and the listed delve) Instant Cast, No Recast Timer, Target: Group

Cleric: Beautiful Remedy (23) -> 250; Glorious Remedy (35) -> 500; Magnificent Remedy (45) -> 750
Druid: Birth Benison (23) -> 250; Birth's Acclimation (35) -> 500; Birth's Benediction (45) -> 750
Healer: Eir's Glorious Touch (21) -> 250; Eir's Magnificent Touch (35) -> 500; Eir's Heavenly Touch (45) -> 750





Radical Suggestion (Too be considered a separate extension of the suggestion above): Healers shouldn't only be identical to an item in their healing, they should be better; I would suggest adding 250-500 to each delve number above. The new delves would be 500(or 750); 750 (or 1000); and 1000 (or 1250).

[Tolakram]

Hard to implement and make the game still playable.

First off the healer debate happens in every game. Making a healer needed does not promote grouping, it promotes a change in bot tactics.

Having healers with all the tools of a high end piece of armor would make the game too easy. Constant spam of heals, no deaths, more problems created, not less. If anything abhorrent needs to be nerfed, and I'm sure that will go over well.

[Lurikhaun]

I don't think anyone really bots on this server... Maybe its just me, but it doesn't seem that necessary on this server...

As far as Abhorrents, there is really no difference between them and healing potions (apart from them not taking up inventory space and costing) so unless you nerf all heal potions this will still be in the game. But that being said, some things aren't really possible to do without this heal spam.. I have tried healing with a healer instead in instances like D3 or other bosses, it is not possible to out-heal their damage, especially in later modes... I mean you could try removing them, but I sort of think that would severely hurt the ability to complete quests (for instance getting to D2 without this ability would be impossible, and that is not an exaggeration, go ahead and try it)... and this wouldn't be fixed by grouping, because casted heals just don't keep up with damage.

"Constant spam of heals, no deaths" and "promotes a change in bot tactics" this would be highly unlikely to happen for several reasons; it would only be 3 classes in the game (which really are some of the weaker classes anyways); group target heals would require people to be in a group, which would only work if they are the same level, or if the healer is power leveling (in which case they could have abhorrent anyways), and death on this server happens fast, it would take a well-timed healer to keep up with the damage (even with instant heals) I know this for a fact, because even with Abhorrent heals on my strongest toons, when I am not careful, or take my eyes off my health bar for too long, I die...

I don't know if you already do this, but I encourage you to develop an alter-ego (so we don't know its you) and actually play this server with us. Numbers on a paper, test dummies, and perfect stats in the most favorable circumstances does not do justice to the experience this server offers.. A lot of the times when I work with you on my perfectly-geared and leveled toons, I don't think you realize that a lot of work went into that (at least a year, with many long hours of planning and dedication), I quite literally am among the elite on this server, and I would hate to plan the game around the expectation that it is normal to have perfect stats/toons.

[Gerk]

If abhorrents gets any sizeable nerf that would make grouping a much higher priority since the only effective heal is from the abhorrents or if you want to have stacks upon stacks of healing potions taking up all your inventory space and hot bar keys (which i know i dont want )

[Lurikhaun]

I don't think the Abhorrents actually heal the group, perhaps I am wrong..

That being said, instant heals of some form or another are important in order to effectively play on this server. The damage comes in too fast that instant heals are the only feasible form of healing... I hate having to clutter my inventory just to do this (eliminating abhorrents wont prevent heal spamming, only make it more frustrating)...

But I think the underlying point of this all is; I die all the time, with capped everything; I am assuming other players must experience this too. With perfect stats/gear/abhorrents, I still die, but the super-quick before I can react random death chaos is mitigated.

What do you think Gerk, do you feel like a god on this server? Or do you still die regularly even with good gear?

[Gerk]

90% of the time i feel godly.... but when i let my ego grow too large the game lets me know real quick whos boss. If that explains it? lol

I see where youre comin from, im sure a lot of people that have taken the time to cap their stats know what you mean as well. What i think should happen is for people to lay on suggestions (workable suggestions...) on how to fix this problem without too much blood, sweat n tears (and hopefully no rage quits). Its not an easy one to fix, first off you gotta take into consideration what is a great game to some is complete crap to another. So opinions from multiple individuals need to be taken into account. Would the game be TOO easy if whatever changes were to take place? There has to be some challenge to the game albeit gettin one shot in a blink of an eye is less challenge and more torture (a game is a representation of the creator... tola... j/k :O ). But yeah.... enough of the rant i think i said something useful... i hope at least lol

[Gerk]

The secondary heal on abhorrents is a group hot which is amazing for keepin my best buddy bunny up longer

What if you made omni-drain armor proc heal for double/triple the amount it heals for now? Doing the same amount of damage, just having a higher health to damage ratio. Right now its 100% damage converted to life. Could possibly bring people another option besides abhorrents.

Also would it be possible to code in a max damage a mob can do in a % vs a player? like said mob would originally hit this player for 90000 when the player only has 10000 hp. with the added code the mob would only be able to do 75% of the players total life in one hit. I dunno if im explaining right... it worked out better in my head lol

[Etaew]

The problem with a % of health is what if you attack with a low level character, level 1 vs high mob, haha you cant kill me :p

[Gerk]

lol good point, i shoulda thought about that

[Tolakram]

In Diablo II I rarely died. A lot of running around, a lot of potions, but never did I want to take on a boss and was unable to succeed. You were supposed to be a god. I see abhorrent as a reward for people who have mashed the potion button one too many times.

If I actually played this game we would not be having this discussion. I rely on you all to point out major flaws that need fixed. Think of it as a grand experiment on how to create a fun server without a development team or time to actually play.

I have played levels 1-30 or so, 3 times, just to make sure it worked well for new players.

[Lurikhaun]

Tola: I think you just proved my point; you needed to use a lot of potions in order to get too d2 (never said d2 was difficult, just getting too him)... I was trying to say that if you removed or severely nerfed potions/abhorrents it would be impossible to get through that dungeon..

Also, in particular, that dungeon would be impossible to have a stick bot (to bring it back to the original point); meaning that there could be no bot spamming the proposed instant group (abhorrent-like) heals; in Nightmare mode; if an active healer could heal with the proposed heals, a group of people in nightmare mode could get to D2 without instant deaths (at level 55-65) and probably handle d2 just fine.. which I think would be good, a group of 2-3 level 55-65s should be able to handle the bosses if well templated... level 80 is just a bonus; those are the final xping levels...

[Gerk]

Ah your talkin about the dreaded mobs in d2's tower..... many nightmares i have are because of those evil bastards lol. I remember my first attempt to solo d2 at 55, i must of died 20-30 times. I have also tried a 2 person party from 55-60, same outcome as solo dying after every pull nearly. There is no running around kiting these bad boys. You agro, they spam their instant cast hydrogen bomb to explode in your face. No amount of defense can save you, not even spamming of abhorrents.

[Lurikhaun]

There are other locations like this, such as the path way to baal in Hell/Realm/Nightmare Mode; that I do not think would be possible without some form of heal spam... as much as it makes our toons god-like sometimes, at other times, it is all that keeps us from eating dirt...

[Lurikhaun]

So I think we are mostly all in agreement that Abhorrents do not create a true "god-mode"..

I think we need to ask ourselves what are the likely circumstances with the proposed addition of a healer with this ability; compared to what already happens...

Currently; I can only do this dungeon with one of my high level toons (w/ Abhorrents); because no group of 2-3 level 55-65 toons can get through this dungeon. Therefore the end result is; I do not play the toon actually questing/leveling for this encounter.

With Proposed Changes: If I couldn't find a group I would probably do the exact same thing as before; but if I had a healer and maybe another damage dealer level 55-65 we could do it just as effectively as a level 80 with abhorrents. This would be due to the combination of Abhorrent-like group heals, and the self-rez (Oh-Shit! Button) that the healer possess; with the added damage of a few other players..

So with regards to the end result of both scenarios; it seems to me that being able to group to complete this encounter at level 55-65 is better for the server; than having to rely on people's 80s to finish off encounters...

As far as this being just as possible with potions (I feel that is untrue) potions run out, typically at the worst moments; especially when your dealing with rapid damage; unless you fill your packs with potions which is also unfeasible... if the stack could be increased to maybe 1000 that would be okay; cost just the same, but reduce the oh shit im out of potion deaths...

All-In-All I don't think granting healers/druids/clerics this ability would upset the balance at all (as it wouldn't be a new ability to the game other than it being castable on the group instead of the individual)... It just makes sense that a healer would be able to do at least the same thing as a potion (who do you think makes them)... when you look at most D&D based games; potions are always identical to spells in the game; because they are essentially that spell trapped in a vial...

[Tolakram]

Hmmm.