WhyWhyWhy...

[pyrite1978]

Perhaps we could both start over from scratch.. Like I said before, I sometimes have a hard time getting my thoughts into words, and the way I say things can at times misrepresent how I feel about them ..

In regards to "classic sucks" It wasn't really ultimately even related to my initial post point.. I just.. kinda added it... >.< It was refrence to server style not, DB.. Meaning, I am tired of the servers that all try to emulate DAOC from 2004. things have evolved SOO much since then.. and my personal opinion on the play style of modern DAOC is far superior to how we played in 2004ish..
and .. as this is all option based strictly on how I feel.. its totally irreverent.. I just would like to see more livelike (1.109 era) servers.. I know about the NNF vs NF and the headache that entails. Hence why on my personal project i am basically ignoring the entire rvr aspect of it, until someone better than me is able to provide some kinda cureall ..(hmm maybe ill try to find an older client that has the unchanged NF crap in it...)


As for the issues with player-base, for rvr to be of any redeeming value, a server needs a MINIMUM of 300 evenly spread active players .. and that still leaves for some sad rvr.. I know that testing will fail with out playtesters.. and rvr end game is boring when there are 4 hibs 1 mid and 3 albs.. total... in the Fornteer.. and they literally can not find each other to fight
(side note, I have been thinking about this a lot lately.. and i think I have actually come up with a valid alternative to OF/NF.. I just haven't a clue where i would start, to try and implement )

But yea.. anyhow, I don't want D2's scripts.. (at least not all of them ) -- ( ... though if you wanna pass me your taxipaths, I won't complain!) these scripts, or DB entries that deviate from what daoc truly has/had are of no interest to me. IE merchants that sell everything under the sun, or NPCs that free50 free RRwhatever free gear... or teleporters that teleport to custom locations.. the things that make your server unique from the rest of the world.. I don't think you or anyone else should be coerced to share... However, when you release a database, with clasic maps spawned, and 50% of SI .. so on so forth, what is the harm in releasing the scripts that go along with those NPCS to actually make them function, or what is the harm in releasing the DB as a up to and including format, meaning I'm not gonna spawn a bunch of merchants that have the wrong class assigned to them so on so forth. everything up to and including XXX will function as intended.. that sorta thing .. I hope, I'm not deviating too far from what I'm thinking in my head >.< That goes back to what I was saying about some kinda of standard or release rules... or something

Also, I need to clarify what I meant by up to date.. or Actually I don't think I said up to date,, I THINK I said Modern.. at any rate.. I didn't mean a DB that had everything as it is right now, this moment on the pay server.. I mean "modern" in a more lose fashion.. as in a DB / server that represents DAOC as it stands at some point in the last 2 or 3 years. Trying to stay on top of every mythic/ea parch would be absurd! And then once you had said DB/Server let it be! dont even make an attempt to update your spawns and such every time mythic changes theirs.. er.. sorry... EA... er.. wait... Well who ever is presently in charge of ruining DAoC. --- As this is my present project in a nutshell.. a Database that represents DAoC as it was the last time I played and actually had fun, (about a year and a half ago) which is spot on, if not very similar to the 1.109 patch so it in theory should not be too terribly hard to accomplish, excluding the NNF issue. (which would also be resolved as a consequence of me figuring out how to make the changes i have in my head to accommodate a low population server, which I wont bother elaborating on right now, unless someone is actually interested!)

Anyhow!! As far as releasing the pieces, and people not being talented enough to use them. Why? why release the pieces to begin with, if you don't wanna provide the untalented with a means to become talented?? Just to clarify I haven't seen the pieces, as of yet. Ive seen the pub database, and a few user databases, and a remake of the pub database. I never found a "SI DB" or TOA db, or "Catacombs" or what ever! Not sayin it isnt there, just saying I cant find any of them. I moved ahead and now have most these areas (minus TOA) populated now... for the most part.. which was an absolute nightmare of work. and I would have desperately liked to have had these zones released by people whom already had to do all that misery work!

That leads back to the forum complaint, and disorganization. I wont argue, if you say you have released packages, I will take your word for it! However I have not had any luck finding them. Surely there has to be a better way than whats currently in place!


Assuming I had the programing knowledge to customize the sever code, to accommodate my ideas, and assuming I had the combined scripting knowledge of the D2 guys, to build the required scripts and other files that my server depended on, to make the database work.. and assuming I had the time to go through and place all the mobs, assign the classes, and brains.. (which would thus far be the only correct assumption) .. the ONLY place I have to go, to dig up information is here. and there is a socially imposed segregation, along with a general mess of a forum that makes it terribly hard to retrieve any relevant information!

I guess this is how I envision it in my head..

You read about a project that you have a decided interest in, so you grab your coat and head for the shop where they are hard at work. You get there, enter a dimly lit room, where you see 4 guys, hunched over their computers, hiding the monitors and glaring at you as you enter! One directs you to a folder sitting on an otherwise empty table. Inside the folder is a disorganized mess of papers some numbered, some not, some seems written yesterday, while other pages are too faded to read, and some not even in your native language.. the moment you open your mouth to ask a question you are told by all four guys, in unison, "everything you need is in the folder" as they go back to grumbling and pounding on their keyboards!

Obviously you decide to leave.. As you walk out the door, you see a room across the hall, the door is labeled "Project W .. All are welcome!" so you head right in. YOu see 45 people.. sitting and chatting, tossing each other various folders .. ya even see a few guys taking bits from folders, and adding them to one, fairly thick folder. The 45 people notice you, and say, in unison, Welcome! .. they offer you some coffee, and a doughnut.. gesture you to a seat, pass you a well organized folder.. and tell you if you have any questions, feel free to ask.. and enjoy your stay...

Now obviously this is a fairly silly analogy, but I can promise you.. this is not to far from the feeling that one gets, when they try to incorporate themselves into this project, as a whole.. meanwhile. on Project W, there are now 46 contributing members.. and in the old dimly lit room, one of the 4 guys, just got a job.. and left.. took his folder, and left.

[Graveen]

Sorry, i can't read your messages, too long, for a content i know well. I have really not enough time for DOL, so for arguing, no more (believe it or not, we know rather precisely what is not working or crap in the code )

Just a quick note about greed: DOL team is sharing EVERY code it produces in the scope of the server emulator. EVERY bit of DOL related code is reversed to the SVN.
Simply, DOL team does not want to be involved with DB stuff since 3 years. Simply. That's as easy as this.

Sure, we released some databases. Sure, some talented contributers also provided some databases. You can see at least 2 or 3 projects related to databases on Sourceforge. We also maintain the actual db layout, and provides examples.

But once again, keep this into your mind, my position is clear: DOL team does not want to be involved with DB stuff.

[Tolakram]

Now obviously this is a fairly silly analogy, but I can promise you.. this is not to far from the feeling that one gets, when they try to incorporate themselves into this project, as a whole.. meanwhile. on Project W, there are now 46 contributing members.. and in the old dimly lit room, one of the 4 guys, just got a job.. and left.. took his folder, and left.

This is all true today, and to some extent years back when the project was active. It's an audience issue. Some projects attract fervent developers who want to create a dynamic private server universe and some don't. The DAoC crowd was smaller to begin with, and the users who wanted to run servers mostly were after end game PvP and had no coding experience.

If anything, the reason the project got as far as it did, IMO, is that back before my time it was recognized that the community had issues and we needed to lock down the DB in order to keep the project alive. There is a lot of history here, including how Uthgard forked due to the instability of DOL at the time, which was always pushing for new features.

So you have a much smaller pool of interested players, and as a result an even smaller pool of players who also want to do shard development.

So you walk into a room and you find ... no one. Maybe a phone with a number that says, call if really important, otherwise you need to figure this out yourself.

Now you come along and you greatly desire the UO shard development experience, but there is no audience here who has the time to listen, much less do anything. The fact is all the code is right there, in SVN. We have multiple DB projects that have been worked on and then abandoned. The DB structure has changed over time but each DB part can be loaded into a MySQL server and restructured very easily by anyone who knows SQL. It just takes someone with a drive and passion who sees working on it as a valuable contribution to the community. Unfortunately these people either don't exist or have full time jobs with family and simply don't have the time. DAoC is an old game, and the audience is getting older.

My personal story, I think, is worthwhile considering.

I joined this project in 2006 but had been futzing around with the code since 2005. It's funny to see some of my first messages in these forums, very typical of a lost new user. My goal was to make a home server the kids and I could play on that was more like Diablo II then DAoC. I love random drops and collecting random drops, so I wrote all these crazy scripts and we all had a good time. I also worked on Storm RvR for a while, trying to push new features and improve things to stay close to live like. I did a lot of cleanup work with artifacts and we had another DB guy add artifact quests and DB entries to make these work. I hated ToA, yet I wanted to help get it to a point where we could call it mostly done.

As this went on my frustration level was rising because the Storm players were trying to template themselves and reporting missing items. I would come home from work and end up spending all evening adding and testing new items and adding them to the game, or fixing some other issue that seemed important enough to fix. Eventually I came to the realization that I had 2 jobs, one during the day that I got paid for and one at night, that gave me nothing, not even personal satisfaction.

See, DOL has always had this well defined split between players and contributors. There were so few contributors that they never had time to play because of the constant fixes and new features. I had GM's rolling new accounts just to hide from the crowd so they could play the damn game. We went through numerous players who became contributors, maybe providing new items scripts, maybe working on quests, you name it. All of these ended up getting burned out and leaving.

I decided I would do what ever the hell I wanted and if I could use anything to improve the project I would make sure it was added to the core. This was the start of D2 and my new attitude of focusing only on things I wanted too, or I thought needed to be fixed (like the crafting issue with PVE servers, for example). If you think about it, this is exactly how a project should work, but you need a large enough group of people for it to work that way. If you have a very small pool of resources, stretched incredibly thin, then asking them to do anything besides what they are best at will bring any project to a halt.

So maybe you understand that, or maybe you don't, but that's the way it is. If you wanted to you could take all the pieces, put them together, and then start soliciting additions. This was tried a year or so back, and even a new server brought online for working with the DB. No one was interested in helping, they were only interested in talking others into helping.

Here is the ideal situation I would like to see ... next post.

[Tolakram]

... My example for a new DB project lead ...

New user pops up and says Hey, I would like to get a good public DB going because I think it would greatly help this project. I know SQL and I've put all the pieces of the various public DB's together and this seems to work, but I am missing things so I'm, going to make a list of things I would like to go into this DB and solicit contributions.

- I have made a DB project and this works with the latest SVN version.
- I will add the data to the public DB that anyone provides.
- I will ensure all contributions are public and any updated DB can be downloaded.
- I will write some documentation for how to update the DB if it gets out of date and I'm no longer around

So after doing all this work I have a specific list of things I need. Please let me know if you can contribute these.

1. I need live like drops and mob locations for ToA
2. Some of the battlegrounds are missing mobs and drops, does anyone have these?
3. LotM is empty, I need mobs and drops for this zone, does anyone have this?

etc.

All it takes is a leader with persistence, the talent to run a db project, and most importantly the desire to run a DB project because they think it will benefit the community. If someone like this came around, or came back, and was ready to do this and had the time to do it you might find some contributors, or it might fall on deaf ears.

Like Graveen said, we are not interested in doing a DB. We can be a contributor so someone else can do it, but anyone doing it has a lot of cleanup work to do. People need to be able to contribute and have someone else do the cleanup and merging. It's a lot of work and, to beat a dead horse, the community is short on people and talent.

[rdsandersjr]

Anyhow!! As far as releasing the pieces, and people not being talented enough to use them. Why? why release the pieces to begin with, if you don't wanna provide the untalented with a means to become talented??

A project of this type must assume the person wanting to run a shard has some level of programming / database knowledge. It is not the focus of this project to help train non programmers / database users how to fix mySQL import issues ect..

As Grav mentioned earlier, Dawn of Light Project is focused 100% on providing a SERVER (no data what so ever) for DAoC. As others have said; some users released databases, third party scripts, ect.. to go along with the server provided by the DOL Team.

With that being said, how can someone expect a team keep something up to date not made by them? Hence the term 3rd Party (DB releases, misc user scripts).

Everything outside the core server is technically not supported, we do our best to help point someone in the right direction, but ultimately any third party script / db is NOT in the scope of the DOL Team, please understand this.

There are many resources that will point you in the right direction, but one will need to think outside the box, and work around these issues. Unfortunately we do not have a team the size of Mangos for example, that has the resources to provide a true one click solution. We understood that, and decided to focus 100% of the server side.

Quick Start Guides:
http://www.dolserver.net/articles/?article=1
http://www.dolserver.net/articles/?article=2

Quest Guides:
http://www.dolserver.net/articles/?category=9

User Files (you will more than likely have to make updates/changes to get these to work with the latest SVN)
http://www.dolserver.net/products/dolse ... rfiles.php

We look forward to any contributions you are willing to make.

[pyrite1978]

Sorry, i can't read your messages, too long, for a content i know well. I have really not enough time for DOL, so for arguing, no more (believe it or not, we know rather precisely what is not working or crap in the code )

Just a quick note about greed: DOL team is sharing EVERY code it produces in the scope of the server emulator. EVERY bit of DOL related code is reversed to the SVN.
Simply, DOL team does not want to be involved with DB stuff since 3 years. Simply. That's as easy as this.

Sure, we released some databases. Sure, some talented contributers also provided some databases. You can see at least 2 or 3 projects related to databases on Sourceforge. We also maintain the actual db layout, and provides examples.

But once again, keep this into your mind, my position is clear: DOL team does not want to be involved with DB stuff.

Yeah, I know.. too long.. >.< I kinda went on.. But ultimately, Its not about core.. its about other things.. entirely not related to the server code I am not in any way complaining about the server, server code, server development practices.. or really any thing at all related to the core!!

[pyrite1978]

... My example for a new DB project lead ...

New user pops up and says Hey, I would like to get a good public DB going because I think it would greatly help this project. I know SQL and I've put all the pieces of the various public DB's together and this seems to work, but I am missing things so I'm, going to make a list of things I would like to go into this DB and solicit contributions.

- I have made a DB project and this works with the latest SVN version.
- I will add the data to the public DB that anyone provides.
- I will ensure all contributions are public and any updated DB can be downloaded.
- I will write some documentation for how to update the DB if it gets out of date and I'm no longer around

So after doing all this work I have a specific list of things I need. Please let me know if you can contribute these.

1. I need live like drops and mob locations for ToA
2. Some of the battlegrounds are missing mobs and drops, does anyone have these?
3. LotM is empty, I need mobs and drops for this zone, does anyone have this?

etc.

All it takes is a leader with persistence, the talent to run a db project, and most importantly the desire to run a DB project because they think it will benefit the community. If someone like this came around, or came back, and was ready to do this and had the time to do it you might find some contributors, or it might fall on deaf ears.

Like Graveen said, we are not interested in doing a DB. We can be a contributor so someone else can do it, but anyone doing it has a lot of cleanup work to do. People need to be able to contribute and have someone else do the cleanup and merging. It's a lot of work and, to beat a dead horse, the community is short on people and talent.

Yeah.. And this is a job that I would absolutely love to make a run at.. And its not like I have a lack of time for it, All I have is time >.< However, I wouldnt consider myself proficient enough in SQL to honestly justify taking on such a quest. I need to level up some first.. Which is slowly happening.. I'm slowly grinding away in Muire, solo.. and at some point ill level up, and move on to the next "dungeon"
At some point I will consider myself proficient enough to take on this quest. And assuming at that time no one else has, or I still retain the desire, so on so forth, I will.. that is, if it is something the community as a whole truly desires.

[pyrite1978]

As Grav mentioned earlier, Dawn of Light Project is focused 100% on providing a SERVER (no data what so ever) for DAoC. As others have said; some users released databases, third party scripts, ect.. to go along with the server provided by the DOL Team.

Well.. Ive tried my best to segegrate this post, using the resources at my disposal.. I placed it it database release, And I started off in the first post stating that it was not directed toward server code dev. I dont know any more I can do to express that I am NOT TALKING ABOUT server code. I appreciate that code developers are not interested in DB development. No one is holding a gun to anyones head demanding they do so. or even requesting their input here.

I't seems you guys keep tryin to make this about server code development.. It is not. What ever issues the server, server code, or server team is currently facing is not within the scope of this topic. and I have no input on that front!

With that being said, how can someone expect a team keep something up to date not made by them? Hence the term 3rd Party (DB releases, misc user scripts).

I don't. However, I would like to see contributors update their own projects.. assuming they are still around and involved to do such a thing. If you look at other communities where users are involved, for example Game mods.. I think if this place adopted some of the practices used in , for example every mod database website on the interwebs, much could be cleared up.. And if that is outside the scope of the team here, then thats fine! But understand that DOL code is, in all of its wonder and majesty, not going to get very far without a DB sibling.. and if the DB side is completely ignored, or... no... wait.. Nevermind.. Everything just suddenly makes sense.. scratch everything.. Nevermind.. I get it. Cut off the server competition before it can ever exist! perfect!

Everything outside the core server is technically not supported, we do our best to help point someone in the right direction, but ultimately any third party script / db is NOT in the scope of the DOL Team, please understand this.

I do.. I understand!!! and this was never about DOL code! And we all appreciate the effort you guys offer on topics that you apparently have no interest in discussing.

[Leodagan]

As I said in an earlier post : contact Etaew (Private Message /Mail, through his website...)

He made some great job around database displaying on his blog, I think he may have some tools for data, or maybe he already thought of how to aggregate multiple data source.

DOL Team is not against databases projects, they just don't get involved, nothing prevent you from trying to build your own dump and provide it, or like Tolakram said build some kind of team asking for contributions, but you should put your thoughts clearly and start a topic to get your hand dirty

Most database contributors like Sniperwolf, Misimouse, Argo, etc... are a bit "away" these times, you can also try to contact them, you should have some replies within weeks at worst, but anyway you're pretty much on your own to begin with, there aren't much database contributors still active, and no project manager...

This is to say, you totally have your hand free, get a public release, try to gather the user contributions, select the one that match your criteria "Live Like", ask for missing Script if Any, read SVN code Commits to know what have been fixed in time, or if some developer reports some bugs on feature you should not use (1st example : don't try to give summon spell to mobs), use a Packet Logger to gather data on Live Server to handle latest spawn / spots / levels...

The big difference you will see right away between Live Server and Public Database, around beginning city the mobs level are still in the range 1-10, now on Live you Level up 1-10 easily in Tutorial Zone, and when you'll port to beginning city the mob range will be more in the 10-15 or 10-20, from what I know nobody ever tried to fix these mobs level, so there is some data I'm sure nobody have (Even Argo's Tutorial Zone are a bit outdated now compared to Live, despite the great work he made to WB these area)

Have you read some "World building" thread to learn commands to update your mob database through your game client ?
Have you registered for a trial Account at Mythic to start copying what you see on Live into "DOL Database records" ?
Have you started downloading ALL and EVERY user resources to see what can match your project or not ?
Did you Checkout and build the current SVN Code ? Even if it's not about code, working with a full fledged database without being able to rebuild the server code will give you trouble debugging your data...

[pyrite1978]

The big difference you will see right away between Live Server and Public Database, around beginning city the mobs level are still in the range 1-10, now on Live you Level up 1-10 easily in Tutorial Zone, and when you'll port to beginning city the mob range will be more in the 10-15 or 10-20, from what I know nobody ever tried to fix these mobs level, so there is some data I'm sure nobody have (Even Argo's Tutorial Zone are a bit outdated now compared to Live, despite the great work he made to WB these area)

I have not, So far, I have not even given it any thought, I had long ago decided the excessive handholding provided in the silly tutorial zone was a bit much for my taste.. and was not ultimately necessary, disabled it, and left it at that I didnt even know such work is, or has taken place publicly. But I am now tempted to check it out, if for no other reason than to see what he's done. Even if I have no desire to use it myself..

Q; Have you read some "World building" thread to learn commands to update your mob database through your game client ?
A: I have.
Q: Have you registered for a trial Account at Mythic to start copying what you see on Live into "DOL Database records" ?
A: I have not, I have the packets I made from several years back tho.
Q: Have you started downloading ALL and EVERY user resources to see what can match your project or not ?
A: I have kinda given up sifting and searching to find things that I may be able to use, or want to learn from.. There is... a LOT of stuff.. stashed away in various places throughout the forum. Trying to find *all* of it, or even a lot of it becomes a full time job!
Q: Did you Checkout and build the current SVN Code ? Even if it's not about code, working with a full fledged database without
being able to rebuild the server code will give you trouble debugging your data...
A: I have. However, at this current stage, There is no need for me to even begin thinking about customizing the server.
and anything I have need to tinker with thus far has been manageable through scripts. tho Its becoming quite a mess..

[Leodagan]

For user ressources I meant this page : http://www.dolserver.net/products/dolse ... rfiles.php

You should take most of it, you could always find some hints about how data work to implement your own objects, you can try to match different datasets using the GUID or ID-NB to look for any update you could need...

You'll spend a lot of time on bestiaries and fan-site like ZAM.

Handling SVN and C# building will allow you to build other tools like the Packet Log Parser, and if you want to try any server script provided in user resources, and you'll eventually need to check how DataObject are matched against GameObject to be sure the field you change in database really mean what you think (not writing any code just following object reference using a code software)

Have fun

[geshi]

I agree with a lot of what you've said.. and quite a few developers/server admins have either quit the scene or they rarely/never contribute due to this absolute nonsense.

I've brought this up so many times now, it's pointless as fuck talking about it again but look at Eden.. they had an almost perfect live like i50 server with many abilities/spells/styles etc implemented which are currently not in the public DB/core and now Eden is gone (again) all of that work has gone to waste. It's currently sitting on a lonely HDD somewhere in France whilst it could be enjoyed by 100s/1000s of players right now.

A lot of people have the attitude "if x doesn't contribute, why should I?" and I actually fall under that group of people.. I contributed the main parts of my freeshard but I simply could not be bothered contributing the rest when others don't.

[pyrite1978]

For user ressources I meant this page : http://www.dolserver.net/products/dolse ... rfiles.php

Ahh Yeah, I have.. I have gathered up a few things from there.. not a lot tho.. some of it is so old, or in a non functional state, I would rather just build the items myself, assuming what I am lookin for is already there..

side note, one thing I have noticed, The built in teleporter seems to me, to be a very powerful teleporter, relitavely easy to customize, easy to set up.. so on so forth... So i am confused as to why there are so many other versions of user created teleporters.. when this one works perfectly fine.. unless they of course come from a time when there was no teleporter in DOL? if thats the case, why not clear the clutter I have not downloaded any of them.. and hav eno idea what they offer, its just an observation/curiosity

[pyrite1978]

I agree with a lot of what you've said.. and quite a few developers/server admins have either quit the scene or they rarely/never contribute due to this absolute nonsense.

I've brought this up so many times now, it's pointless as fuck talking about it again but look at Eden.. they had an almost perfect live like i50 server with many abilities/spells/styles etc implemented which are currently not in the public DB/core and now Eden is gone (again) all of that work has gone to waste. It's currently sitting on a lonely HDD somewhere in France whilst it could be enjoyed by 100s/1000s of players right now.

A lot of people have the attitude "if x doesn't contribute, why should I?" and I actually fall under that group of people.. I contributed the main parts of my freeshard but I simply could not be bothered contributing the rest when others don't.

Well, My original concept was not to run my own server. it was to build a compilation of SQL and .cs, set in a daoc time frame of about 2 ish years ago.. merge it all in a way that isn't dysfunctional, package it up, as a sort of one click install.. plug n play sorta thing. I have not seen the wow emulator(s?) and have no desire to.. But its my understanding that they have this, or something similar.. but since there is such a void of already made, functional content, I am having to do more and more of it myself, which means I am having to learn along the way, things I had not intended to learn to begin with .. So as an end result I *could* be left with a functional, close to live server, ready to go! and then the dilemma , Should I release this, As it stand now, I feel I should.. if for no other reason than to prove that not everyone subscribes to this way of thought!

I also think I may have not been clear on what I felt should or should not be shared...
The things that D2 has, that very dramatically change the way the game behaves, these are uniqe to that server, and that server alone.. I kinda think of that as intellectual property, and in no way would I ever expect that to be given away, unless he simply wanted to.. but things like.. for instance, Artifacts, or Champion weapons.. these are not things that are unique to any one specific server.. if you have managed to build a database of livelike Champ weapons. these things are not unique.. they are not special pieces of gear that you spawned from the recess of your mind! they are more the property of Mythic than of any of us!!
And I see absolutely no reason why people aren't sharing things like this.. And the few that you do find stashed here and there in the forums, are incomplete, old, broken, mangle your DB, full of errors.. have all sort of problems..

Its obvious the more I mess with it, the more I see, any such project like I am talkin about is NOT a one man job. but I dont see a lot of interest in it either.

A sad state of affairs indeed! :p But ultimately I am not giving up, not on DOL, Not on the community, and not on my project.. (yet) >.<

[Tolakram]

I agree with a lot of what you've said.. and quite a few developers/server admins have either quit the scene or they rarely/never contribute due to this absolute nonsense.

I've brought this up so many times now, it's pointless as fuck talking about it again but look at Eden.. they had an almost perfect live like i50 server with many abilities/spells/styles etc implemented which are currently not in the public DB/core and now Eden is gone (again) all of that work has gone to waste. It's currently sitting on a lonely HDD somewhere in France whilst it could be enjoyed by 100s/1000s of players right now.

A lot of people have the attitude "if x doesn't contribute, why should I?" and I actually fall under that group of people.. I contributed the main parts of my freeshard but I simply could not be bothered contributing the rest when others don't.

You do realize Eden has put an entire branch of code into DOL with bug fixes and other enhancements?

See, it's never the code, it's all about the DB. If the DB is not shared then everyone gets mad. Why? It's a crap ton of work to craft a DB, why should anyone share their hard work when you know there are people who will take it and run the same server, using the same code, but with a few extra tweaks to try and steal population.

You don't share your database because you know there's at least a couple of people who would do this to you. They have fun doing that crap. Granted, you all should have grown up by now, but you can't tell me with a straight face that you didn't share because others didn't share. That's just a convenient excuse.