Power Regen Rates

[Tolakram]

Howdy,

For each tic you gain 15 points of power. A tic is simply when a timer goes off. Out of combat the timer goes off every 3 seconds while in combat it's every 10 seconds. So now you gain 15 points per tic but the tic come at different rates depending on combat. These values were verified by both of us on Live servers.

The serenity ability is not being added to the amount gained per tic, that's a bug, I'll work on adding it asap. As far as the efficacy of Serenity. Keep in mind that it's a single point per tic, so out of power you are gaining an extra 1 point of power every 3 seconds. That's just not a whole lot of power.


edit: I made a committed the change. Serenity will work as expected the next time Storm is rebooted.

[Sand]

All I was getting at was Serenity is an under appreciated ability since I began playing this game like 5 years ago so find it funny to hear someone complain about it not giving them great power regen. The advantage of the ability is that, unlike most other power abilities, it works in combat, is always on/no timer. All I was saying was that onlive they don't care, they simply go for power regen boosts because it's the quick fix.

Storm does not have all the live items but nonetheless we are striving to be livelike in our behaviour and that includes serenity working like it does on live. Tola's fix hopefully get it there.

I am just trying to get you to understand that just because you don't immediately get the power regen rate you want doesn't mean certain things aren't being fixed properly, it just that there are multiple elements to work out.

How do I calculate that it is 15Power, it's using the power costs of spec spells and how many I can cast to determine the casters powerpool, then watch how much power % is regened each tic (I did 10 more tics to average it out) and each time arriving at 15.

Oh another note, I went to login to try and test out health regens and then considered that health varies greatly based on level, so didn't think it be a fixed value, then realized wait power regen amount might not be fixed either so decided to try and test out lower level power regens.

I am guaging a 13.5 regen or so on a level 35 so think we can possibly use 10 + (level/10) as the amount regened. A regen value of 10 for a starting ton still seems high but do find power becomes more of an issue the higher you get, until you can get to 50 and start getting the nice items. I will do another test of an even lower level toon to see if it seems to follow through, just when they are lower the power pools are lower, making it tougher to estimate a power pool.

[Tolakram]

I'm not sure if it varies or not. I tried it on live with my 50, jumping off a tower, and on a level 1 getting hit by a yellow mob. The health regen is so extreme at low levels that yellow mobs can't kill you. You may be right, but it might not be a very big amount.

Thanks for checking it out by the way. You live on my side of the pond?

[Sand]

I think it varies but think starts off fairly high for your level then tapering off.

I think for power it is something like 10 + level/10 and might be something similar for health.

Not sure what side of the pond your on but refering to as pond suspect your on the other side from me, I am on the Eastern side of North America.

[Phen]

Sand I would like to first say I'm not over here kicking and screaming that I don't have my way of things, I try to point out an issue I think needs to be looked into. And I can be pretty persistent about them as well
I do a lot of research before and after I post something that may seem out of place, the changes listed by mythic's own patches didn't seem to coincide with what I was experiencing on Storm.
We all see certain aspects that we feel may inhibit or seem more practical to the game that we would like to change or improve on. I try to post any evidence I come across that will give credit to my findings.
I assume for the most part a bit of Storms mechanics/coding is not as well oiled as or updated as far as Live and version 1.91 so I tend to look for precursors to that version and make comparisons to Storm.In particular I researched that originally Combat HP/Power Regeneration used to be 14 seconds and Endurance didn't regenerate at all, OOC standing was 6 seconds and sitting was 3 seconds which all seem to be pretty close to what I was experiencing on Storm aside from the Endurance. These rates predate version 1.91 so I decided to use those as the base for my understanding of the changes made in 1.87:
http://roclar.net/DAoC/info.php#Regen
Now whether those rates were changed somewhere before 1.87 which is quite possible I still find it a solid base, give or take a couple points.
Another issue that lead me to believe we were not getting correct rates was this post:
http://www.camelotherald.com/news/news_ ... oryid=3788
As you can see they also list the regen as a percentage which is what I always assumed it was; a percentage of your total power pool.

Another part of this confusion was also the way my UI is depicting it:
http://static3.filefront.com/images/per ... lytlrs.jpg

Casting the Aoe acuity buff cost 10 points It reduced my powerbar by 2 points , like I said before I assumed it as a percent of my total power pool.
When you and Tolk were referring to 10 and 15 points gained per tick I was dumbfounded as i only say 1 and 2 in my UI.
Now with all that aside I have a few questions to ask of your testing on Live.

What type and level were the characters you used to test the spell cost and regen rates?( I saw Wizard and Scout previously )
Were they naked as far as armor and equipment?
If not, what level was the armor/equipment?
What level was the spell you were casting?
What bonuses did they have to the spellline ?
If so how much?
What about Ra's and Realm Ranks?
Were they buffed or tested in contrast with buffs,Ra's,Realm Rank and/or power regen effects?
Did you take into account as far as power pool size that you were also regenerating power as you cast and that may offset your calculations?

[Sand]

All that research on what things use to be is pretty much irrelevant and likely so are most of those questions.

I tested on live and the in combat regen rate is definitely 10seconds or at the very least 9 seconds currently on live so I would just ignore anything that suggests it was 14 and cut in half so now it should be 7, no way is it that quick in combat. The out of combat sitting rate has not changed and still 3 seconds as I confirmed in testing, only part Storm was off on in updating so that standing was same as that rate.

The amount regened is trickier to determine but think we got a pretty good estimate now on the level 50 value but still need to nail down the effect from level.

Both my tests of 2 different level 50 classes and Tolakram with another class of level 50s arrived at same result for the amount. Things like RAs only really matter if we had serenity which I did not because I was testing base values, nor did I test with any regen buffs/effects. I don't think that is neccesary, the definition of those abilities/buffs pretty much tells us what they do but if given a chance I might do a quick test.

I am doing further testing with some lower toons to see the effect of level and posted that earlier in the thread, that so far it looks like level does have a small effect on how much power you regen but tic rate would be universal.

Of course I took into account power regens, I did that by guaged power pool by using the single tic cost of multiple spells and/or tested in combat casting so could get several casts before O would get a tic of power then averaged it out. I did not simply cast one spell over and over.

I also did comparisons of wizard naked and with acuity items on and found the 15 power held true but not the % from the power bar.

All uis dipict %, not actual values if they give a number at all, that was a point I tried to make in my first post in the thread.

BTW the grab bag you posted is only taking about the specific case of their power regening 2.5% of their current power pool, I get no indication from that they are making any other assertions about power regen values, they were just giving the idiot who asked the question a lesson in rounding.

As for status of Storm with regards to what patch we are at, it highly depends, we implemented some of 1.95 a while ago, yet somethings way older have not been implemented. There is far more work than people have time for so we have to grab and fix what we can.

[Tolakram]

Casting the Aoe acuity buff cost 10 points It reduced my powerbar by 2 points , like I said before I assumed it as a percent of my total power pool.
When you and Tolk were referring to 10 and 15 points gained per tick I was dumbfounded as i only say 1 and 2 in my UI.
Now with all that aside I have a few questions to ask of your testing on Live.

What type and level were the characters you used to test the spell cost and regen rates?( I saw Wizard and Scout previously )
Were they naked as far as armor and equipment?
If not, what level was the armor/equipment?
What level was the spell you were casting?
What bonuses did they have to the spellline ?
If so how much?
What about Ra's and Realm Ranks?
Were they buffed or tested in contrast with buffs,Ra's,Realm Rank and/or power regen effects?
Did you take into account as far as power pool size that you were also regenerating power as you cast and that may offset your calculations?

Lots of questions here.

First off the important stuff.
Toons uses were same level, same dex, same int, no RA's that effect power regen, and completely naked.
Most important, no focus staff which would reduce casting cost.

The spell I used was a shield spell in my earth line, and both toons had specced to 50 in that line.

I made the realm rank of both characters the same, just in case passive RA bonus affected regen.

I am willing to bet money that, at level 50, the regen rate on Storm is extremely close to live, whith the time difference to go from out of power to full less than 5 seconds. I tested this repeatedly.

This normalizes naked toons with no bonuses, now I can consider broken spells and abilities if someone can show they are broken.

I fixed serenity which will be fixed on Storm once a reboot happens.

So, since the beginning of this week:

Casters have more power
Casters no longer have to sit down to speed regeneration
Casters regenerate more power per tick

Percentage, as displayed on your UI, is not really telling us anything since we don't know what your total power pool is. If you regen 15 points per tic and significantly add to your power pool then your regeneration % per tic will be smaller.

[Sand]

I think I did my tests without a focus bonus (well one of the toons was a scout so she didn't but not so sure on the wizard).

I just did some research to try and confirm the effect of focus bonus and found following:

Code: Select all

Q. I searched the knowledgebase and couldn't find any info about how spell focus bonus works. Does it decrease power cost for all spells cast or just for baseline spells?

A. This is one of those questions that gets forwarded straight to our Balancinator. Here?s his reply: Your spells actually cost more than the listed value without the aid of focus bonus. Now add in focus bonus appropriate to your level and your baseline spells actually cost the listed amount in the delve. Your spec line spells will actually cost less than the listed delve value if you have the proper focus bonus.

I don't completely trust that but, if true means to have spell cost delve to equal actual cost should use spec spells with no focus or base with full focus bonus. I am running some tests now to try and confirm my estimates on power pool for the wizard were correct.

[Tolakram]

Yea,

the grab bag has been incorrect a number of times on that issue. I'm not sure their focus code is sane, but to be safe I always use baseline spells for testing and do it without any focus bonus. I'll have to see if our code adds a penalty to no focus because if it does then testing might be flawed.

[Sand]

I found another Grab bag which is more complete and the one I posted which is later indicates an "apparent" contradiction but both do indicate spells actually cost more than delve when not using focus. Part of the later grab bag that seems incorrect to me is that it makes differentation between base and spec spells when I am not seeing a difference really except the difference caused by using a spell above your spec. I attribute that an over simplification because people generally use spec spells far more often from the line they spec in rather than the line they don't.

Here is the link:
http://www.camelotherald.com/news/news_ ... oryid=1036

I did some testing and what that article says seems to hold true that without any focus spells cost 120% of delve, and can go down to 80% with max focus bonus(full quality/con staff, spec higher than spell level, and full level focus bonus). I compared two spells with level of 47 in a line, one spec and one base but both from line I am speced 50 with some bonuses to the skill, and did so with and without focus. Without staff two casts of the spells cost 13% power, and with staff two casts cost 9% power. 13/9 = 1.44 and 1.2/.8 = 1.5 so while not exact, I think rounding and/or my staff being a point down in con is likely accounting for not being right on here. Problem is other variations could contribute to same ratio, as 100% and .7% for peak focus bonus but given this is what mythic says I think maybe we should go with that.

I am not sure how I estimated power before to arrive at 15 power a tic on the wizard as now I find it is taken into account the above that I arrive at the 15power regen value.

[Tolakram]

Well,

we know it's 3 seconds per tic, we can measure that, so if we can accurately time how long it takes to get from 0 to full then we should be able to come up with power per tic. Maybe.

I wonder if the interface knows how much power you have or weather it's presented to the client as a percentage. I have never delved into the DAoC custom interfaces so I don't know.

I can't do any work tonight, but over the weekend I'm going to take a level 3, level 35, and level 50 and try to determine the hitpoint equation. That might provide some insight into how power regen works. Or not.