PVE Ideas and Suggestions

[WisdomConners]

I don't know how many other's are PVE Centric like myself but here's a couple of ideas I'd like to toss into the suggestion bin.

1: PVE Only flags for characters who are strictly PVE which allows them to get better gear for tougher PVE Mobs but makes those characters completely UnUsable in PvP/RVR combat. I see these flags as being permanent to that character once they're activated. IE: No Going back and forth between PVE/RVR. They can't attack RvR players with Uber PVE Gear and they can't be attacked either. Specifically they can never participate in RvR combat but can still fight Named level PVE Mobs in RvR areas without worrying about other players interferring with their PvE enjoyment.

2: Make their names display visibly different than enemy players so that RVR players won't even waste their time on attacking them.

3: As was already suggested. Better PVE Gear that allows high level characters to combat very high level PVE Mobs.

Just some ideas from a PVE aholic.

[Etaew]

1) I'm alright with such a flag, however we'd have to add a setting such as no healing a non PvE flagged player in a RvR zone to prevent abuse.

2) Yes we can change their names, we can set their title as PvE Only or something, oh, and we should do RvR only chars too.

[loen2]

I guess this could be used to upset ballance.
At the moment it takes a full group to kill dragons, and now Lilith (sp) theese drop some of the best pvp gear in the game theese pve only chars could be used to farm theese ?
Also they could be used as a distraction in rvr.
eg. A pve warrior runs by a group of albs on front door of a keep leading them in to a trap of sup sms with a pac healer.

Also how would they gain RR or would they?

[stealth215]

I guess this could be used to upset ballance.
At the moment it takes a full group to kill dragons, and now Lilith (sp) theese drop some of the best pvp gear in the game theese pve only chars could be used to farm theese ?
Also they could be used as a distraction in rvr.
eg. A pve warrior runs by a group of albs on front door of a keep leading them in to a trap of sup sms with a pac healer.

Also how would they gain RR or would they?

that's why you make it so they cant enter RvR zones at all (except maybe allow them to port to labby(points up to the teleporter thread he posted awhile ago))

and the thing is, not only the pve characters can farm them, but they can get pve gear (with bonuses to block% and parry% in pve only) so they can do pve easier

[Tolakram]

Is it a concern that PVE toons can farm RvR equipment and offer it to others?

What about DF, do we allow PvE characters in DF?

I like the idea of PVE only characters locked out of RvR. I also like the idea of PvE only gear that can only be worn in PvE zones. I can mess with the looks, extensions, glowies, on PvE items without upsetting the look and feel of RvR. The shared PvE RvR zones are a problem though. Perhaps we have wear anywhere gear with PvE only bonuses and wear PvE only gear. The PvE only gear would have a special prefix ... Furry Mighty Short Sword.

I'm just trying to add the most entertainment for PvE without effecting RvR. If we created PvE only equipment then we might not need to create PvE only characters. This way someone who levels to 50 won't regret their character type choice once they get there.


PVE enhanced equipment, only wearable if you're level 50, very similar to unique drops in quality with some added PvE only bonuses.

PVE only equipment, only wearable if you're level 50 AND in a PvE zone, higher quality than typical unique drops. You cannot equip these items in RvR zones and cannot zone to RvR enabled areas with any of these items equipped.

[Hyperactive MoFo]

instead of doing all that .. like making a flag and pve chars only ... just create some <pve> item bonuses... theres items to the game on live that only works for pve .....


then u dont have to bother balancing.... and all this other nonsense ... i dont think u should make things easily farmable .. with xrealming pve theres enough people to kill dragon no problem


sorry post above lol says same thing ... TOTALLY AGREE PVE ONLY BONUSES TO CERTAIN ARMOURS WILL FIX THINGS

[Graveen]

not usable in RvR zone as on live. finally the best balancing tools as 2 worlds did not collide :p

[WisdomConners]

1) I'm alright with such a flag, however we'd have to add a setting such as no healing a non PvE flagged player in a RvR zone to prevent abuse.

2) Yes we can change their names, we can set their title as PvE Only or something, oh, and we should do RvR only chars too.

Actually You can't prevent RVR players from playing PVE if that's what you meant or they'd NEVER get geared up. They should have a flag preventing them from getting or wearing the PVE only gear but that's about it. The idea wasn't put forth to penalize RVR players in any fashion.

I guess this could be used to upset ballance.
At the moment it takes a full group to kill dragons, and now Lilith (sp) theese drop some of the best pvp gear in the game theese pve only chars could be used to farm theese ?
Also they could be used as a distraction in rvr.
eg. A pve warrior runs by a group of albs on front door of a keep leading them in to a trap of sup sms with a pac healer.

Also how would they gain RR or would they?

If they had clearly visible PVE only names above their heads as has already been brought up, they would NOT be bait to anyone who paid attention. I don't think locking PVE characters out of RVR areas is the way to go either. My whole idea was based on giving people the ability to do what they wanted unhindered by the possibility of interference from other players. It wasn't to penalize anyone's freedom to go where they wished. If they have PVE Titles nobody will bother going after them as bait and they won't be bothered farming gear in DF or the Labyrinth or POC, where Respec Stones and other good PVE gear does drop, at least on LIVE servers. It would stop a lot of grey ganking of PVE characters in places like DF as well!

The reason I think the flag should be permanent once chosen is so that players can't use it just to level up to 50 and then decide to go RVR. The alternatives to Realm Points could be as has already been suggested, PVE alternatives. After all, most realm abilities are only good in RvR anyway. A few, like MCL would need alternatives for PVE use but that's about it.

instead of doing all that .. like making a flag and pve chars only ... just create some <pve> item bonuses... theres items to the game on live that only works for pve .....

then u dont have to bother balancing.... and all this other nonsense ... i dont think u should make things easily farmable .. with xrealming pve theres enough people to kill dragon no problem

sorry post above lol says same thing ... TOTALLY AGREE PVE ONLY BONUSES TO CERTAIN ARMOURS WILL FIX THINGS

No PVE only bonuses will not "Fix Things" as far as PVE only players like myself are concerned. Without a PVE only flag I'm still a target for harassment and ganking if I wish to PVE in RVR areas like the lab, POC and DF. And in spite of what you think is going on with Xrealming PVE, Getting a dragon group still isn't easy with the population numbers we have right now. I couldn't even get a group to join me in the Labyrinth yesterday, let alone for the dragon.

Part of what I'm hoping for with the PVE only gear is the ability to get buff enough to go solo to areas of the realm that I've never gotten to see on the Live Servers because I wasn't in the right In Crowd, Guild or Group. PVE only players are already a very small minority in the game. I don't think giving them immunity from harassement in RVR and alternatives in better gear is asking too much. Nor do I think that giving them better PVE gear would harm the RVR players. If they're PVE only characters, that flag could be used to prevent mobs like the dragon from dropping good RVR gear in their loot and alternatively cause him to drop the good PVE only gear.

Speaking for myself, I just want to explore, bash monsters and horde loot. I'm not here to harass other players, test my Uber Skills in PVP or otherwise prove myself against other players. I don't know what the other PVE players want. Hence the suggestion thread.

[Tolakram]

No PVE only bonuses will not "Fix Things" as far as PVE only players like myself are concerned. Without a PVE only flag I'm still a target for harassment and ganking if I wish to PVE in RVR areas like the lab, POC and DF.

There's a serious balance issue with this. DF is supposed to be an RvR area. People that enjoy RvR like to farm down there with the rewards being worth the risk. If we allow PvE players in there without risk then everyone will make a PvE to get the rewards. How could we avoid this problem?

PVE only players are already a very small minority in the game. I don't think giving them immunity from harassement in RVR and alternatives in better gear is asking too much.

It's all about exploitation.

Ok, idea, we could make it so PvE players could not trade with non PvE players. Apologies if someone already suggested this. Still exploitable though. Group up with a single RvR toon and 7 uber PvE toons. Set autosplit off so that only the RvR toon gets the loot, wreak havok on the mobs. Of course the single RvR toon is attackable and the PvE can't defend, so another solo player could wreck the party, or at least disrupt it.

[Graveen]

For now daoc is not a "i want i get" game. It requires organisation and risks to have what you want. this is part of the defy.
Some could be interested with solo pve but actually this involves serious issues with the game balance. This is why i stop personally on PvE sets non usable in RvR.

[WisdomConners]

For now daoc is not a "i want i get" game. It requires organization and risks to have what you want. this is part of the defy.
Some could be interested with solo pve but actually this involves serious issues with the game balance. This is why i stop personally on PvE sets non usable in RvR.

This isn't DAoC. This is FreeShards. Our hosts can make the game about what they want to make it about and that doesn't mean we're being "I Want! I get!". It just means they're trying to make the game better in ways the original Mythic team never did. I don't happen to think asking for PVE centric alterations will cause RVR to disintegrate. Frankly I'm not seeing how it would affect your game balance either.

No PVE only bonuses will not "Fix Things" as far as PVE only players like myself are concerned. Without a PVE only flag I'm still a target for harassment and ganking if I wish to PVE in RVR areas like the lab, POC and DF.

There's a serious balance issue with this. DF is supposed to be an RvR area. People that enjoy RvR like to farm down there with the rewards being worth the risk. If we allow PvE players in there without risk then everyone will make a PvE to get the rewards. How could we avoid this problem?

I seriously doubt that RVR players will suddenly become PVE players just for loot that they can't use on their RVR characters. If the PVE flag is used to determine what loot drops there won't be any good RVR loot dropping in PVE groups. That's not a balance issue at all if the flag can't be changed once applied and the PVE gear can't be used for RVR once a character is flagged as PVE only player. PVE rewards would not be usable by RVR characters in RVR against other RVR players and RVR loot won't drop in PVE players bags if the flag checks are implemented properly. It's as simple as that.

It's all about exploitation.

Ok, idea, we could make it so PvE players could not trade with non PvE players. Apologies if someone already suggested this. Still exploitable though. Group up with a single RvR toon and 7 uber PvE toons. Set autosplit off so that only the RvR toon gets the loot, wreak havok on the mobs. Of course the single RvR toon is attackable and the PvE can't defend, so another solo player could wreck the party, or at least disrupt it.

If implemented properly PVE players couldn't group with RVR players to exploit things as you've laid it out. It would be like grouping with the enemy. I'm sure that flag can be used that way. You can't exploit what you can't use. Setting Auto Split off on all the PVE characters would not cause the PVE loot to drop in the RVR character's pack or the reverse of RVR loot dropping in PVE players bags as long as the flag determines who gets what kind of drops. As far as exploitation goes, do you really want to play with someone who uses exploits? I know, we're talking about real world here even though it's a virtual game and real live idiots will come and try to take advantage. I would think though that those people would be reported and banned when caught.

Do you want it to be just an RVR game? Make it an RVR server like all the rest and get rid of PVE all together. Then players like myself will just leave. But if you make PVE more desirable to players like myself we'd be a boon to the economy. While you're out bashing Middie and Hibbie and Alb heads, PVE'ers will be making money, crafting and just generally leaving you alone. Look. Live servers have PVE only servers, but I don't see having multiple servers here to be an option for PVE only players. Plus, PVE only players could end up being your best and most prolific crafters and that would benefit RVR players if they didn't have to fuss with learning crafting.

If I had the know how and skill I'd start a PVE only server myself. I know it would have a fan base just as the co op server did on live.

[WisdomConners]

Here's how I view it. Even in the real world at war, attacking "Civilians" is against most known code's of war. What's wrong with giving PVE flags of immunity to the civilians among you? What's wrong with giving them the ability to live their lives building the economy and generally going about their business? Making loot that is only usable by them would benefit the realm in economical ways.

[Tolakram]

I think the one thing your not considering, if I read you correctly, is the amount of work vs the payback.

We don't even have mobs dropping all the correct loot yet much less loot tables for PvE characters. I was looking for reasonably quick implementations that would allow players to have fun and get fun gear but would not take an extreme amount of time to implement. This means random loot because only random loot is fast to implement.

Ok, let me lay out the only ideas I'm comfortable with and you (and other please) tell me how palatable they are. I consider these fairly easy (read quick) to implement, so look at these ideas as the only possibility of seeing any PvE focussed modifications in the short term.

PvE enhanced items

- Part of the unique object generator
- Usable only by a level 50, tradeable, sellable
- Every unique drop has a small chance to be a PvE drop
- Items with PvE bonuses have less, and less powerful, standard bonuses on them
- PvE bonuses are set to an amount that requires almost a full set of PvE gear to obtain the full benefit.
- Players wearing a full set of PvE gear will tend to be powerful against mobs but weak against other players due to the balance of bonuses on their items.

For example; a maxed (in other words quite rare) level 50 unique ring drop might have

Strength: 25 pts
Dexterity: 12 pts
Constitution: 12 pts
Hits: 33 pts

While the same level 50 with maxed PvE bonuses would be:

Parry (PvE only): 5%
Block (PvE only): 3%
To Hit (PvE only): 3%
Reactionary Style Damage Bonus (PvE only): 3%

You have a total of 12 active slots, so in order to get to 25% max PvE bonus you would need to be wearing at least 5 items of one type containing a maxed bonus or 8 items containing the 3% bonus. In other words to max your PvE bonuses you would be lacking in standard stat and skill bonuses. If I did my math correctly I can see where you could end up with:

+25% Parry using 5 items
+25% Block using 5 items
+25% To Hit using 2 items of 5% each and 5 items listed above with 3% each
+24% Reactionary Style Damage Bonus using a 3% bonus from 8 of the items listed above

So obviously we've used 3 of the typical 4 bonus slots on each item (there is a very slight chance to get a level 50, 5 bonus item, but we'll ignore that for now). These items are usable anywhere but naturally you'll be pretty weak against another player. One plus is that you would be good against NPC guards if you decide to take a tower or keep ... and aren't ganked in the process.

I can't agree to a PvE player being invincible in an RvR zone, it just doesn't work. You would be subject to RvR death in an RvR zone, you would be an RvR player in PvE gear.

PvE characters

The only other solution that I'm comfortable with is the PVE only player who is not allowed in any RvR zone, including DF and Laby. Instead the PvE only player would be able to obtain powerful PvE only unique drops. It's like two completely separate games rolled into one server.

- The PvE player could not trade with RvR players.
- The PvE player could not group with RvR players.
- The PvE player could not zone to any RvR zones.
- PvE only players would get unique objects from a PvE unique object generator. Items would contain more variety of fun things (glowies, colors, etc) and contain decent PvE plus regular bonuses.

I don't think you would accept this because of the lack of DF and laby access and honestly while it sounds kind of cool, I can't imagine it would be fun for very long.

Here's how I view it. Even in the real world at war, attacking "Civilians" is against most known code's of war. What's wrong with giving PVE flags of immunity to the civilians among you? What's wrong with giving them the ability to live their lives building the economy and generally going about their business? Making loot that is only usable by them would benefit the realm in economical ways.

That's an interesting idea, being a civilian. I don't think war in mid evil times was that clean though. I don't think you would do anything wrong with that ability, but the fact is an RvR hating PvE character, immune to being killed by a player, could run around and cause a lot of grief. How about a PvE stealther with full stealth, used just to root out other stealthers. In the real world if you did that you would be killed, or jailed.

[WisdomConners]

Honestly I haven't coded anything in years so I don't know what would have to be coded to do it. That's why they're just suggestions. Since you're one of the volunteer coders you have me at a complete disadvantage in knowing what is and is not possible.

I know the game is capable of having immunity flags because they use them to some extent on the LIVE co-op servers. You're right, I wouldn't be fond of being excluded from DF, POC and the Labyrinth unless they made some really excellent PVE gear drop that would allow me to go see a lot of PVE areas I've never been completely through like SIDI and DarkSpire. I could learn to live without those areas if the PVE areas had more fun areas to explore. That could probably be done with Instance dungeons. I don't know how flexible the game is in allowing them to create new areas on the free shards though.

[Tolakram]

We can't create new lands, we have to use existing lands. Everything that can happen as far as items and immunity and spell effects and durations and mob placement and merchant inventory all happens on the server. The client knows how to draw stuff and has all the item models to draw and the movement animations, but the server tells it what to do ... for the most part. The client has all the zones, the server tells it which zone you are in and moves you from zone to zone when teleporting etc. It's all numbers from the servers point of view.

I'll be slowly adding the PVE enhanced items over the next few weeks to a month. Lots of testing needed to make sure they work only in PvE and a few of the bonuses need new handlers (code) written for them so the server knows what to do.

Someday Sidi and the like will be itemized, but it will be slow.